Etiquette



DP Etiquette

First rule: Don't be a jackass.

Other rules: Do not attack or insult people you disagree with. Engage with facts, logic and beliefs. Out of respect for others, please provide some sources for the facts and truths you rely on if you are asked for that. If emotion is getting out of hand, get it back in hand. To limit dehumanizing people, don't call people or whole groups of people disrespectful names, e.g., stupid, dumb or liar. Insulting people is counterproductive to rational discussion. Insult makes people angry and defensive. All points of view are welcome, right, center, left and elsewhere. Just disagree, but don't be belligerent or reject inconvenient facts, truths or defensible reasoning.

Tuesday, August 6, 2019

Socialism vs. Capitalism

This applies to tyrants on the political left, right and everywhere else

If you Google "capitalism definition" and "socialism definition", these are the definitions one gets: Capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

My limited knowledge of history and political theory tells me that, with few exceptions, what is taken to be real capitalism and socialism seem to look more alike than different from the point of view of the individual citizen. Even the elites and the wealthy have lives that look very similar, e.g., they control power and wealth and have more freedom and privilege than the masses.

I am aware that the horseshoe theory asserts that the far-left and the far-right, are not at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, but instead closely resemble one another, like the ends of a horseshoe. Can one argue that capitalism and socialism as defined above fit the horseshoe theory, if not a circle or near-circle theory, at least for average people, if not for everyone? Is that perception of reality an illusion?

Western European countries seem to be hybrid capitalist-socialist and their governments seem to generally work pretty well for most average people. For those countries, it isn't clear to me what proportion of overall individual well-being and freedom comes from capitalism and what from socialism. It probably varies among the different countries.

Capitalist, socialist and hybrid capitalist-socialist countries can be so corrupt as to be fairly considered kleptocracies and/or tyrannies. The Google definitions of capitalism and socialism do not specify that a country has to be (1) mostly honest or corrupt, or (2) mostly democratic or authoritarian. History seems to show that some capitalist and socialist countries have been highly corrupt and/or authoritarian, or even totalitarian.

Can a person logically argue that capitalism and socialism are really beside the point, and essentially they are about the same, at least for average people? If one assumes that rich and other elites nearly always have great power, wealth and freedom, what's left is to look at how the different governments affect average people and their well-being.

A key pro-capitalist argument holds that capitalism is better at generating wealth and the historical record seems to support that. But if wealth inequality is high, regardless of a capitalist or socialist source, most average people apparently will live in poverty and misery.

Is the fundamental political and social disagreement not one of socialism vs capitalism, but instead a disagreement over other things, including distribution of wealth, how much regulation should there be, amount of personal freedom, individual and social well-being, e.g., happiness, and truth vs lies?

This is true


B&B orig: 7/8/19

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