Etiquette



DP Etiquette

First rule: Don't be a jackass.

Other rules: Do not attack or insult people you disagree with. Engage with facts, logic and beliefs. Out of respect for others, please provide some sources for the facts and truths you rely on if you are asked for that. If emotion is getting out of hand, get it back in hand. To limit dehumanizing people, don't call people or whole groups of people disrespectful names, e.g., stupid, dumb or liar. Insulting people is counterproductive to rational discussion. Insult makes people angry and defensive. All points of view are welcome, right, center, left and elsewhere. Just disagree, but don't be belligerent or reject inconvenient facts, truths or defensible reasoning.

Sunday, February 23, 2025

Regarding violent resistance: Analysis of MAGA and its asymmetric epistemic advantage

I'm afraid this is another TL/DR post. Sorry. I didn't intend it to be that way, but the seriousness of our situation keeps prodding me to look for answers to complicated questions. At least check out the three key points (bullet points) at the top of the four AI Q&As at the end of the post.

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Threats to Americans under djt and MAGA's corrupt, iron fist regime are rapidly intensifying. Some planned policy goals will literally kill a lot of innocent Americans. For example, deranged MAGA freak RFK Jr. is now pulling the plug on activities related to development and evaluation of vaccine safety and efficacy. arstechnica writes:

Just days after anti-vaccine advocate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. became the country's top health official, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has already pulled back some of its efforts to protect Americans with safe, lifesaving vaccines.

Last weekend, a Washington Post columnist noted on Bluesky that the CDC's effective "Wild to Mild" seasonal flu shot campaign had vanished. The campaign highlighted how the seasonal vaccines can prevent influenza infections from becoming severe or life-threatening.

Meanwhile on Thursday, The Washington Post reported that the HHS told the CDC to indefinitely postpone a meeting of its vaccine advisory committee (the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, or ACIP), which Kennedy has criticized. ACIP, comprised of independent experts, meets regularly to review and discuss vaccine safety and efficacy data and vote on recommendations.
 
One thing that can be said of what MAGA wants to do to public health is that it is not merely aimed at fixing problems. It is aimed at destroying American public health policy and infrastructure. RFK Jr. promised he was going to be guided only by data, but that was a profoundly insulting lie. He could not care less about data. He wants to see thousands of Americans die from infectious diseases.


Violence?
The following is not an assertion that most actors in certain groups are MAGA. It is an assertion  that enough are MAGA and (i) they are now in power, and (ii) unrestrained by laws, morals, inconvenient facts and truths, rationality, good will, common sense, or anything else. The following is not an argument favoring violence. It is my personal assessment of our situation, nothing more.

It is time to contemplate the outbreak of widespread violence. djt and MAGA elites have forced many Americans into untenable positions. The GOP, federal courts (especially the USSC), law enforcement, the rule of law, the Dem Party, the private business sector, and Christianity have all failed and betrayed us, our democracy and our civil liberties. Who or what is left to defend us? The bare majority of Americans who oppose the corrupt dictatorship that djt and MAGA elites are forcing on us leaves opposition with few options. 

Mass demonstrations and protests will not faze djt or MAGA elites in the slightest. Again, who or what is left to defend us? 

Top: djt & MAGA
Bottom: Democracy & rule of law

I do not know how likely widespread violence is. Again, I am not advocating violence. But it does seem increasingly possible that there could be a violent rebellion in the near future. 

I agree with, and have been arguing basically the same the analyses and conclusions that the following four AI deep research Q&As assert, i.e., Perplexity's Deep Research mode and I are in almost 100% agreement. For people who distrust AI and won't read any of it, ignore that and pretend that all of the following analyses have been written by me personally. If you don't want to read any or some of that, here are three key points that come out of these four analyses:
  • Violence in resistance to djt  and MAGA literally is killing us, but might backfire, strengthening djt's and MAGA elites' power, while weakening our power and civil liberties.
  • Dishonest speech, demagoguery, dark free speech, deceptive/divisive propaganda, or whatever one calls it, is more powerful and persuasive than weak honest speech. There is an epistemic asymmetry in authoritarianism that greatly favors authoritarianism over democracy. As I posted last month, this knowledge dates back at least to Plato and Aristotle in ~400 BC. Here, Perplexity reinvents that old wheel.
  • Sometimes demagogue-driven authoritarianism is brittle because they depend on perpetual crisis and can be eroded by their own excesses. We just might have to live through this, even if it kills thousands of us.

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Q1: How plausible is the argument that Trump and MAGA have forced people into untenable positions and widespread violence is the only option left, with the argument articulated like this?: The following is not an assertion that most actors in certain groups are MAGA. It is an assertion that (my first two paragraphs from above pasted into the question) .... 

A1: The resurgence of Donald Trump and the MAGA movement has intensified debates about the stability of American democracy, the role of institutional safeguards, and the potential for widespread political violence. Over the past decade, Trump’s rhetoric, policy initiatives, and alliances with far-right actors have systematically eroded democratic norms, weaponized governmental power, and normalized authoritarian tactics. Concurrently, key institutions—including the Republican Party, federal courts, law enforcement agencies, and corporate entities—have either actively enabled this agenda or failed to mount meaningful resistance. This convergence has created a perilous environment in which marginalized communities, political opponents, and pro-democracy advocates face escalating threats. While the argument that widespread violence is now the “only option” remains contested, the structural conditions for such conflict—state-sanctioned repression, institutional collapse, and the mainstreaming of extremist ideologies—have undeniably intensified under MAGA’s influence.
Erosion of Democratic Norms and Authoritarian Consolidation

The Normalization of Authoritarian Governance
Since returning to office in 2025, Trump has accelerated efforts to centralize power, bypass congressional oversight, and redefine constitutional boundaries. His second inaugural address framed his presidency as a “liberation” from democratic constraints, declaring a national emergency at the southern border to justify sweeping executive actions 3 7. This rhetoric mirrors historical authoritarian playbooks, where crisis narratives legitimize the suspension of civil liberties. Trump’s administration has issued 26 executive orders in its first week alone, including attempts to reinterpret the 14th Amendment’s birthright citizenship clause and militarize immigration enforcement—actions legal scholars describe as “dictatorial theories of presidential power” 7 14. By asserting inherent constitutional authority to override statutes, Trump has effectively positioned the executive branch as unaccountable to legislative or judicial checks 7.

Project 2025 and the Weaponization of Bureaucracy
The Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025 blueprint has provided a roadmap for embedding MAGA loyalists across federal agencies, ensuring ideological conformity and dismantling institutional independence. Prospective hires undergo rigorous vetting for “MAGA enthusiasm,” including scrutiny of social media activity and demands to recount their “MAGA awakening” 2 13. This purge of non-loyalists—derided as “MAGA commissars” by critics—has paralyzed agencies like USAID, where political appointees have attempted abrupt closures of programs deemed ideologically incompatible 2 13. Such tactics extend Trump’s longstanding grievance against the “deep state,” reframing nonpartisan civil service as existential threats to his agenda.
.... very long analysis ....

Conclusion: Democracy at the Precipice
The argument that widespread violence is inevitable under MAGA rule reflects genuine despair over institutional failures but risks legitimizing the very authoritarianism it seeks to oppose. While Trump’s policies have created structural incentives for conflict—through dehumanization, militarized policing, and partisan capture of the state—history shows dictatorships often crumble under sustained nonviolent resistance. The path forward requires confronting MAGA’s ideological roots: white Christian nationalism, corporate oligarchy, and the myth of neoliberal meritocracy. Whether democracy survives depends not on abstract institutions but on collective courage to defend it—in streets, courts, and every contested space where power resides.

The alternative—resignation to violence as “the only option”—plays into MAGA’s hands, justifying further repression and eroding the moral high ground essential for lasting change. As Trump tests democracy’s limits, the response must be strategic, principled, and above all, rooted in solidarity that transcends the divisions his movement exploits.

Q2: How influential has MAGA-aligned American Christian nationalism been in the attacks on and erosion of democracy and the secular rule of law?

A2: The alliance between the MAGA movement and Christian nationalism has emerged as a transformative force in American politics, systematically undermining democratic institutions and secular governance. By weaving ultra-conservative religious ideology into policy frameworks, judicial appointments, and electoral strategies, this coalition has redefined political discourse, normalized authoritarian tactics, and destabilized the separation of church and state. The convergence of these forces—rooted in ethno-religious identity politics and anti-pluralist governance—has accelerated the erosion of democratic norms and secular legal foundations.

.... long analysis ....

Conclusion: Democracy at a Crossroads
The MAGA-Christian nationalist alliance has reshaped American governance, replacing pluralistic democracy with majoritarian theocracy. Through judicial capture, voter suppression, and cultural demonization, this movement has institutionalized policies that privilege a narrow ethno-religious minority over the broader populace. While resistance persists—via grassroots mobilization, legal challenges, and international scrutiny—the trajectory toward authoritarianism remains alarming.

Q3: You assert that "the argument that widespread violence is inevitable under MAGA rule reflects genuine despair over institutional failures but risks legitimizing the very authoritarianism it seeks to oppose", but that authoritarianism (and corruption) has already been normalized by the 2024 elections that returned Trump and the GOP to power. What more legitimacy do they need? They have all the power.

A3: .... long analysis ....

Beyond Legitimacy: The Naked Power Reality
The Endgame of Post-Legitimacy Authoritarianism 
MAGA’s trajectory reveals a shift from legitimacy-seeking to raw power consolidation. Key indicators:

1. Personalist Rule: Trump’s installation of family members (Donald Jr. as Senior Adviser, Ivanka as UN Ambassador) and loyalists (Steve Bannon as Chief Strategist) bypasses traditional accountability structures 9.

2. Information Control: FCC revocation of broadcast licenses for CNN and MSNBC (March 2025) under “national security” pretexts completes media capture 15.

3. Paramilitary Integration: Oath Keepers and Proud Boys members now comprise 12% of DHS staff under the “Patriot Recruitment Initiative” 2.

These moves reflect what scholar Juan Linz termed “sultanistic regimes”—systems where personal loyalty replaces ideological or institutional legitimacy.

The Illusion of Inevitability
MAGA’s greatest strength lies in fostering belief in its invincibility. Yet history shows no regime is permanent. The 1986 People Power Revolution (Philippines) and 2018 Armenian Velvet Revolution prove even militarized autocracies can fall to sustained nonviolent resistance.

Current mutual aid networks—feeding 17 million Americans through church basements and community centers—demonstrate grassroots resilience 15. Legal scholars note that 132 sanctuary cities still defy federal immigration orders, while Texas’ Supreme Court rebellion against Trump’s EPA overreach shows federalism’s lingering power 13.

Conclusion: Legitimacy as Theater in the Autocratic Play
MAGA’s post-2024 legitimacy is performative—a stage play where democratic rituals mask authoritarian reality. Like Putin’s Russia or Orbán’s Hungary, the regime requires constant legitimacy theater: staged elections, co-opted courts, and propagandized crises.

Yet as the 2026 midterms approach—with GOP plans to eliminate mail-in voting in 19 states—the façade grows thinner. The true battle lies not in debating MAGA’s legitimacy but in exposing its fictional nature while rebuilding democratic power from below. For in the end, no amount of institutional capture can withstand a populace that withdraws its complicity and reclaims the courage to imagine—and fight for—a different future.
Q4: Some people have been trying to expose the fictional nature of djt and MAGA ever since djt won the GOP nomination for president in 2016. All of those warnings have failed miserably. The power of dishonest speech (demagoguery, divisive lies and slanders, etc.) seems to have overwhelmed the power of honest speech, which problem is made worse by the subversion of honest reporting by most of the professional news media. How can weak honest speech ever overcome the power of the demagogue's dishonest, divisive free speech?  
A4: The Asymmetric Battle: Demagoguery’s Resilience and the Paths to Restoring Epistemic Integrity
The ascendancy of Donald Trump and MAGA-aligned rhetoric since 2016 has exposed a fundamental asymmetry in modern political discourse: demagogic strategies leveraging dishonesty, division, and identity polarization consistently outmaneuver fact-based, pluralistic dialogue. This dynamic reflects not merely a failure of "honest speech" but systemic vulnerabilities in democratic institutions, media ecosystems, and collective psychology that demagogues exploit. To understand how truth-seeking discourse might regain traction, we must dissect the structural advantages of demagoguery and identify counterstrategies rooted in epistemic renewal, institutional reform, and narrative reclamation.

The Anatomy of Demagogic Dominance
1. Crisis of Legitimacy and the Authenticity Paradox

As Hahl, Kim, and Zuckerman Sivan’s research demonstrates, demagogues thrive in contexts where constituencies perceive political systems as illegitimate or unresponsive 3 5. MAGA’s core supporters—largely white, non-urban, and economically marginalized—view institutions (media, academia, federal agencies) as hostile to their interests. Trump’s lies function not as factual claims but as symbolic protests against this perceived illegitimacy 3. When he falsely asserts voter fraud or "deep state" conspiracies, he signals solidarity with supporters’ grievances, rendering factual rebuttals irrelevant. This creates an authenticity paradox: supporters dismiss contradictions because the demagogue’s defiance of norms embodies their resentment toward elites 3 13.

2. Emotional Resonance Over Rational Engagement
Demagoguery weaponizes affective polarization by simplifying complex issues into moral binaries. Patricia Roberts-Miller identifies this as framing politics as a battle between a virtuous "ingroup" (MAGA supporters) and a corrupt "outgroup" (liberals, immigrants, elites) 14 15. Trump’s rhetoric—e.g., labeling migrants "invaders" or opponents "vermin"—activates tribal instincts, making empirical counterarguments seem like attacks on identity 14. Emotional narratives (e.g., "America First") override analytical reasoning, a phenomenon amplified by social media algorithms prioritizing engagement over accuracy 6 9.

3. Institutional Subversion and Media Fragmentation
MAGA’s success stems partly from co-opting institutions meant to safeguard truth. The Federalist Society’s judicial appointments neutered checks on executive power, while right-wing media (Fox News, Newsmax) created an alternate epistemic reality 9 11. Meanwhile, mainstream outlets’ pursuit of "balance" often legitimizes false equivalencies (e.g., treating climate denial as a valid "side") 6. This fragmentation allows demagogues to dismiss unfavorable coverage as "fake news," exploiting declining public trust in media 9.

Why Honest Speech Fails: Structural Barriers
1. The "Truth Decay" Feedback Loop

Rand Corporation’s concept of "truth decay"—eroding agreement on facts—explains honest speech’s impotence. When parties inhabit separate information ecosystems (e.g., MSNBC vs. Breitbart), shared epistemic ground vanishes 6 9. Fact-checking Trump’s 30,573 documented falsehoods becomes futile, as corrections rarely reach his base and, when they do, reinforce distrust in "elite" sources 3 6.

2. The Demagogue’s Asymmetric Advantage
Demagogues face no obligation to coherence or consistency. They can promise incompatible policies (e.g., tax cuts and deficit reduction), blame failures on scapegoats, and pivot narratives daily. Honest actors, bound by factual accountability, cannot match this agility. As the "Checkers speech" showed, emotional appeals (e.g., Trump’s "They’re not after me, they’re after you") bypass logical scrutiny 4 13. (emphasis added)

3. The Attention Economy’s Incentives
Digital platforms reward outrage and novelty, not nuance. Trump’s inflammatory tweets garnered 6.1 billion impressions in 2020—free amplification that honest discourse cannot rival 9. Algorithms prioritize engagement, ensuring demagogic content spreads faster than corrections 6.

.... more analysis ....

Conclusion: The Long Game of Democratic Resilience
Demagoguery’s ascendancy reflects democracy’s paradoxical weakness: its openness to dissent allows anti-democratic forces to exploit its freedoms. Yet history shows demagogues’ reigns are often brittle—dependent on perpetual crisis and eroded by their own excesses (e.g., McCarthy’s downfall post Army-McCarthy hearings).

The MAGA movement’s reliance on gerrymandered minoritarianism and judicial overreach (e.g., Moore v. Harper) masks latent vulnerabilities 3 9. Its 2025 crackdowns—militarized border policies, criminalizing protests—have sparked bipartisan backlash, with libertarians and business elites withdrawing support 9.

Ultimately, honest speech’s power lies not in outshouting demagogues but in patiently rebuilding the civic fabric they tear: local journalism, cross-partisan dialogues, and institutions that visibly serve the public interest. As Habermasian deliberative models suggest, democracy’s best defense is a public sphere where reason and empathy prevail—not through force, but through relentless, collective recommitment to the messy work of pluralism 15.


Center: Democracy, truth & rule of law
Left and right: MAGA's lies & authoritarianism