Etiquette



DP Etiquette

First rule: Don't be a jackass.

Other rules: Do not attack or insult people you disagree with. Engage with facts, logic and beliefs. Out of respect for others, please provide some sources for the facts and truths you rely on if you are asked for that. If emotion is getting out of hand, get it back in hand. To limit dehumanizing people, don't call people or whole groups of people disrespectful names, e.g., stupid, dumb or liar. Insulting people is counterproductive to rational discussion. Insult makes people angry and defensive. All points of view are welcome, right, center, left and elsewhere. Just disagree, but don't be belligerent or reject inconvenient facts, truths or defensible reasoning.

Tuesday, July 27, 2021

Ire directed at unvaccinated people is rising

The New York Times reports that increasingly vaccinated people are losing patience with people who refuse to get vaccinated. Some are concerned for their children, who are too young to be vaccinated. Others are concerned about the possibility of lockdowns or reinfections after vaccination. Vaccine hesitancy or refusal is based on legitimate concern about the lack of long-term safety data and/or illegitimate disinformation. So far, vaccines have been in people for about 16 moths. Thus the safety data is limited to that length of time, but it obviously increases as time passes. The New York Times writes:
As coronavirus cases resurge across the country, many inoculated Americans are losing patience with vaccine holdouts who, they say, are neglecting a civic duty or clinging to conspiracy theories and misinformation even as new patients arrive in emergency rooms and the nation renews mask advisories.

The country seemed to be exiting the pandemic; barely a month ago, a sense of celebration was palpable. Now many of the vaccinated fear for their unvaccinated children and worry that they are at risk themselves for breakthrough infections. Rising case rates are upending plans for school and workplace reopenings, and threatening another wave of infections that may overwhelm hospitals in many communities.

“It’s like the sun has come up in the morning and everyone is arguing about it,” said Jim Taylor, 66, a retired civil servant in Baton Rouge, La., a state in which fewer than half of adults are fully vaccinated.

“The virus is here and it’s killing people, and we have a time-tested way to stop it — and we won’t do it. It’s an outrage.”

The rising sentiment is contributing to support for more coercive measures. Scientists, business leaders and government officials are calling for vaccine mandates — if not by the federal government, then by local jurisdictions, schools, employers and businesses.

“I’ve become angrier as time has gone on,” said Doug Robertson, 39, a teacher who lives outside Portland, Ore., and has three children too young to be vaccinated, including a toddler with a serious health condition.

“Now there is a vaccine and a light at the end of the tunnel, and some people are choosing not to walk toward it,” he said. “You are making it darker for my family and others like mine by making that choice.”

“It’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks,” a frustrated Gov. Kay Ivey, Republican of Alabama, told reporters last week. “It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down.”

Even though she is fully vaccinated, Aimee McLean, a nurse case manager at University of Utah Hospital in Salt Lake City, worries about contracting the virus from a patient and inadvertently passing it to her father, who has a serious chronic lung disease. Less than half of Utah’s population is fully vaccinated.

“The longer that we’re not getting toward that number, the more it feels like there’s a decent percentage of the population that honestly doesn’t care about us as health care workers,” Ms. McLean, 46, said.

She suggested health insurers link coverage of hospital bills to immunization. “If you choose not to be part of the solution, then you should be accountable for the consequences,” she said.

The NYT goes on to comment that 57% of Americans 12 and older are fully vaccinated. Americans are still getting about 537,000 doses per day on average. That is an 84% decrease from a ~3.38 million peak in early April. The combination of a low vaccination rate and lifted restrictions have caused infections to rise. As of last Sunday, there were an average of 52,000 daily new cases, That is a 170% increase over two weeks before then. Hospitalization and death rates are also slowly increasing. 

A parent of a young son in Connecticut commented after a relative who refused vaccination became infected, “I feel like we’re at that same precipice as just a year ago, where people don’t care if more people die.” That parent is worried that his son will become infected from his unvaccinated relative. Similarly, an engineering teacher at the University of Florida, in Gainesville commented, “If we’re respecting the rights and liberties of the unvaccinated, what’s happening to the rights and liberties of the vaccinated?”

One woman who refuses to get vaccinated comments that she is “taking my time with it.” She is concerned about possible long-term vaccine side effects and the rush to get them approved and used by the public. She also commented that “I shouldn’t be judged or forced to make a decision. Society will just have to wait for us.”


Questions: What’s happening to the rights and liberties of the vaccinated? Should vaccinated people have a right to be free from fear of infection from people who refuse to get vaccinated? Should unvaccinated people be financially responsible if they get sick or infect other people? Does the lack of long-term safety data beyond about 16 months justify refusal to be vaccinated?[A] Is society justified in judging people who refuse to get vaccinated or coercing them into getting vaccinated? How much longer should society be forced to wait?

Is distrust of government, the CDC and/or the FDA a legitimate reason to distrust the COVID vaccines, i.e., does distrust simply sweep away or obliterate existing empirical evidence of safety and efficacy? 


Footnote: 
A. My guess is that the probability of the rise of a major new adverse side-effect from the vaccines available now is very low, maybe 1 chance in ~1,000,000 in the next 5 years. That estimate is based on the following factors:

1. Experience from decades of widespread vaccine use globally indicates that previously unknown side effects from vaccines usually become apparent within about weeks 6-8 of clinical trial use, usually a lot longer than that. All major side effects usually become apparent during clinical trials which look closely for adverse side effects.  

2. Such evidence goes back at least to the 1960s (a short review article is here).

3. Some of the factors that caused serious side effects including deaths from vaccines are not present in the current anti-COVID vaccines. The current COVID vaccines contain the nucleic acid from the spike protein so it is impossible for the entire virus to be reconstituted or reassembled as has happened in the past with some vaccines such as the polio vaccine. That was a major source of serious side effects that is simply off the table for COVID.

4. CDC data indicates that over 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine were given in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, which is a massive number of people from which safety data is being drawn. So far, the CDC reports two serious adverse events has been observed through its vaccine safety monitoring system. The CDC writes: "To date, the systems in place to monitor the safety of these vaccines have found only two serious types of health problems after vaccination, both of which are rare. These are anaphylaxis and thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after vaccination with J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine. Serious side effects that could cause a long-term health problem are extremely unlikely following any vaccination, including COVID-19 vaccination. Vaccine monitoring has historically shown that side effects generally happen within six weeks of receiving a vaccine dose. For this reason, the FDA required each of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines to be studied for at least two months (eight weeks) after the final dose. Millions of people have received COVID-19 vaccines, and no long-term side effects have been detected."

5. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based on a relatively new technology that delivers nucleic acid (RNA) that encodes the COVID spike protein to human cells, which in turn make the protein, which then causes an immune response against the virus. Similar RNA vaccines against HIV, rabies, Zika and flu have been tested in phase 1 and phase 2 safety trials in people. So far, this kind of vaccine technology has been found to be safe with other viruses, although these experimental vaccines are not on the market, presumably due to lack of efficacy, manufacturing cost and/or unstable or small market size (Zika). Current evidence is that all of the COVID vaccines on the market now are clearly effective enough for mass public use, so that is not a legitimate concern. (link to a general audience article about how RNA COVID vaccines work)

6. The vaccines were developed faster than any others I am aware of. The development time cut off at least 3-5 years of normal development time. The article linked to above comments: "All COVID-19 vaccines have to meet the same rigorous FDA safety standards as any other vaccine. You may be wondering then, how these COVID-19 vaccines were developed so quickly compared to the vaccines of the past, which took years to create. The speed happened on the front end in the development of the vaccines. Because of massive public and private funding, many of the financial hurdles that can delay research projects were removed. But the testing and approval processes were no different than those for other vaccines in the past.

The reported side effects of the mRNA vaccines were temporary symptoms such as fever and muscle aches, similar to what some people experience after getting other vaccines. Most common side effects of a vaccine are identified in studies before the vaccine is licensed. In rare cases, adverse side effects may not be detected in these studies, which is why the U.S. vaccine safety system continuously monitors for side effects after a vaccine is licensed." (emphasis added)




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