Etiquette



DP Etiquette

First rule: Don't be a jackass.

Other rules: Do not attack or insult people you disagree with. Engage with facts, logic and beliefs. Out of respect for others, please provide some sources for the facts and truths you rely on if you are asked for that. If emotion is getting out of hand, get it back in hand. To limit dehumanizing people, don't call people or whole groups of people disrespectful names, e.g., stupid, dumb or liar. Insulting people is counterproductive to rational discussion. Insult makes people angry and defensive. All points of view are welcome, right, center, left and elsewhere. Just disagree, but don't be belligerent or reject inconvenient facts, truths or defensible reasoning.

Wednesday, May 24, 2023

Views From the Moderate Democrat About 2024

 Back in 2016, many on the left were looking for an alternative to Hillary Clinton based on her long time in the Beltway, her perceived self-dealing, and an air she exuded that she deserved the title of the presidency, as opposed to someone with the character to be worthy of that title.

When Donald Trump came on the scene, he was something different and gave many Americans the chance to try something outside the box. After four years, however, it became apparent to the left that whatever character flaws Clinton had were minor in comparison to the complete lack of morality of Trump as leader of the United States.

For the left in 2020, it was "anyone but Trump," and the turnout in that election from the left put on full display the danger that was perceived in a second Donald Trump term.

As we approach 2024, many on the left are starting to make it known by commenting on articles pertaining to the upcoming election how they plan to cast their vote. Both parties should take note of the leanings of the moderate voters.

In a recent call to donors, Florida governor Ron DeSantis made the comment that there are three viable options for 2024, but only two are electable—himself and Joe Biden. Based on that story, many moderates from the left had some things to say in response to his belief:

I'm going to do the Republicans voters a big favor. Speaking as a person that voted for Joe Biden last election. I'm really not thrilled with voting the same way, but if all the right has to offer is Trump and DeSantis, I'm voting Joe Biden. The Republicans have to get a candidate that speaks to more of the voting public than these two extremists you have now. As a Democrat, I'm not against voting for Republican, but there is no way I'm going to vote for Trump or DeSantis or someone like Ted Cruz , Pence or Nikki—it has to be someone with some common sense that's running on a policy to help Americans not divide America. I want to hear conversation about the border, about inflation, about what we're going to do about gas prices and less conversation about transgenders and gay people and drag queens which can come after an individual is voted in the office. But running on these policies means nothing to me or my bank account and I'm going to vote for the person that personally makes my life better.

 In response to this thought, a few others chimed in:

That makes no sense. The kind of Republican you're speaking of has no shot in today's Republican primary. Thirty years of Fox News and conservative media has filled them with hate/anger and radicalized them to varying degrees. If you speak of Democrats as fellow Americans that need to be challenged but worked with, they think you're a RINO and drum you out of the party. They only want someone extreme who thinks of Democrats as an enemy to be destroyed. Give it up, that Republican party is dead and never coming back. The remaining common sense Republicans who want to work together just haven't been drummed out yet, but they will.

 Another moderate Democrat sees things in a similar manner:

I'm along the same thinking. I would have crossed over for Kasich in 2016, but any Republican that stands up to Trump's base gets forced out of the party or has zero chance to secure the nomination. The kind of Republican that has the backbone to stand up for what is right instead of pandering to the far-right is just very rare in today's GOP. Until the scourge of Trumpism is gone, it's all blue, all day.

 

The Path to the Nomination

The problem that DeSantis faces is that in order to win the nomination from the GOP, he believes he has to pander to Trump's base and "out-Trump" Trump himself. This is looking like a major miscalculation—the reason people liked DeSantis in the first place was that he appeared more normal than Trump.

Instead, what he has done is show people that he is cut from the same mold as Trump and would be an eerily similar version of what people voted out of office in 2020. His campaign slogan might as well be "Trumpism that is popular in Florida."

His extreme positions as governor on education, the LGBQT+ community, and abortion have alienated many moderates and independents already, as seen in this comment:

DeSantis shouldn't count himself. He has burnt himself with many moderate Republicans, Independents, Black people, LGBT people and the teachers in K-12 and colleges/universities as well as the businesspeople. His name already is tarred.

Others are beginning to come up with monikers for how they see Ron DeSantis and not many are flattering.

Neither Deranged Donald nor the Florida Fuehrer will be allowed anywhere near our White House.

Ron DeExtremist is doing a great job alienating potential voters and making even more political adversaries.

DeFascist has a snowballs chance just like Trump.


DeSantis' Leadership Style

After a term in office, the DeSantis leadership style might be popular with Floridians, but others are not as enamored by him:

DeSantis is running on a more extreme platform than Trump. He just behaves less loudly, less flamboyantly and watches his speech more carefully. Pretty much the same as Trump at the core but probably more authoritarian as he seems obsessed with one subject—while Florida has multiple issues to focus on—and wants to want to run Florida as his own "personal kingdom." Being less raucous doesn't make a politician less tyrannical.

The fact that Disney is eating his lunch in the political arena, and the fact that he can't handle the reality and keeps trying more petty retaliation, is turning off many voters. His misstep in talking about Ukraine was also noted by voters, including those from his own party that are clearly on the side of democracy as it pertains to foreign nations, as stated in this comment:

DeSantis can't even handle a certain district in his state, yet alone the entire nation and our foreign allies.

Further setting back DeSantis is the view that he's anti-open market by not only Democrats, but also many Republicans.

Yeah, because I want a president that saves our economy by … driving away business that is too woke? Didn’t realize only evangelicals had green money. Guess those woke bucks don’t count.

And one user wrote his own manifesto to describe the DeSantis leadership style and how many Americans view him:

DeSantis seems to have a much higher opinion of himself than the vast majority Americans. DeSantis is an extreme-right fascist/white Christian nationalist candidate trying to woo the MAGA crowd but the MAGA extremists are split with many remaining loyal to Trump (like MTG, Lindsey Graham and JD Vance). And if the GOP doesn't back Trump, he'll probably run as a 3rd party candidate to make matters even worse for DeSantis. DeSantis' ratings have done nothing but go down, he's already past his prime and his recent more extreme actions have not made him into someone that can win a general election. Like all wannabe dictators, DeSantis lives in a bubble, doesn't listen, just pontificates and thinks bullying minorities and business with a white Christian nationalists ideology of hate, fear-mongering and division is somehow a winning strategy.

 

Beyond the Person: GOP Party Issue

Many users have gone beyond the individual candidates to note what the current form of the GOP stands for and that it's a major turnoff. The Republican party panders so far right in attacking vulnerable Americans—like the transgender community—that they are seen as extreme:

Biden will beat Trump or DeSantis by 10-12 Million Votes. Most independents are done with the MAGA extremism. Not to mention their extreme assault on Women’s Healthcare.

The further the party goes to enact abortion restrictions, including Florida's six-week abortion ban, the more they alienate half of the voting population in the country. The recent election in Wisconsin for the State Supreme Court highlighted how the issue has motivated younger voters that don't want their rights taken away, giving the Democratic candidate a whopping 10-point victory margin.

And the House of Representatives is doing the party no favors by putting some very extreme politicians into a very public spotlight. At this point, many Americans think that Marjorie Taylor Greene is the typical Republican because of how much airtime she and her extremist positions get on television. People recognize her as fully committed to Trumpism.

An Election Over Before It's Even Begun

The Republican party is using the same attacks against Biden and Harris we saw in 2020—Biden's age and Harris' capability as successor should that age become a factor. Biden's age is more of a concern, but when the left looks across the aisle and sees the 78-year-old option, one with very clear mental deficiencies, it's not really a defining issue. That is the one thing DeSantis will have an advantage on if he should garner the nomination.

However, that one advantage will not be enough to overlook the baggage of being linked to the MAGA following that has turned off the vast majority of the Democratic party and around two-thirds of Independents.

DeSantis could slide into the nomination should Trump develop health issues or end up in jail from one of his numerous upcoming convictions. But the path DeSantis is going down is the same one we saw in 2022 where GOP candidates pandered to the extreme Trump base to get the nomination and then tried to unsuccessfully tack back to the middle in the general election.

The Trumpist label doomed all of those candidates, yet DeSantis has decided that that's his best strategy for 2024.

Based on what happened in 2020 and in 2022, this election could very well be over before it even begins—much of the electorate has seen enough of the candidates to know exactly who they don't want in the Oval Office.

 

Would you vote for DeSantis over Biden?

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