Etiquette



DP Etiquette

First rule: Don't be a jackass.

Other rules: Do not attack or insult people you disagree with. Engage with facts, logic and beliefs. Out of respect for others, please provide some sources for the facts and truths you rely on if you are asked for that. If emotion is getting out of hand, get it back in hand. To limit dehumanizing people, don't call people or whole groups of people disrespectful names, e.g., stupid, dumb or liar. Insulting people is counterproductive to rational discussion. Insult makes people angry and defensive. All points of view are welcome, right, center, left and elsewhere. Just disagree, but don't be belligerent or reject inconvenient facts, truths or defensible reasoning.

Tuesday, May 27, 2025

Rethinking recent American conservatism

Over at reddit, a rebuttal to my comments about what American conservatism has been in recent decades caused a significant change of opinion. I had thought that conservatives were mostly pro-democracy, pro-civil liberties and pro-honest governance. I asserted this:

True conservatism stood for (1) small, efficient, honest, transparent government, (2) democracy, the rule of law and civil liberties, and (3) a reasonable balance of power between the three legislative branches. Project 2025 is recent and so is the rise of deep corruption in government (kleptocracy) and the unitary executive theory, (autocracy or dictatorship). Until Trump came along in 2016, little to none of Project 2025 was mainstream conservatism. ....
 
True conservatives were and still are pro-democracy, pro-civil liberties and pro-rule of law, the opposite of what MAGA politics and policy is. True conservatives have mostly been RINO hunted out of power. They have been replaced by corrupt, authoritarian MAGA radicals.

The blow-back I got was sobering and convincing. I changed my mind. Here's the rebuttal with a minor fact check correction and a clarity edit:  

small, efficient, honest, transparent government,

Conservatives have never wanted these. You’re confusing conservative rhetoric with conservative policy. Ask for a hard definition of what “small government” means sometime. It’s a nonsensical term that is just a stand-in for “only the parts of the government I personally like”, and every single conservative has a different view of what is and isn’t a legitimate part of “small government”. 

Conservatives certainly do not support efficient, honest, or transparent government. They constantly go after and try to limit or remove transparency and reporting requirements, they actively support and expand dishonest vectors for corruption (ex. Weakening campaign finance laws, making legislative records secret, etc).

 democracy, the rule of law and civil liberties, 

Conservatives have long been actively opposed to civil rights, and believe civil rights are o key for majority groups. They don’t support the rule of law—only the rule of the wealthy. That has long culminated in anti-democracy viewpoints. How long have they spent protecting the anti-democratic electoral college, again? How many conservatives over the years have insisted, incorrectly, that we are a “republic, not a democracy!”

 a reasonable balance of power between the three legislative branches.

Whole shoveling power in the hands of unelected judges and into the barely-elected hands of the President. Their only function in Congress appears to be obstruction and slashing taxes for rich people, and it has been such for 30+ years now. 

 Project 2025 is recent

But its ideas are very old, and things conservative stalwarts have been working to bring about since at least the 1980s. The same Heritage Foundation that put out Project 2025 has been publishing the “mandate for leadership” series it came out in, since 1981. 

P2025 is just American Conservatism with everything else removed. It’s exactly what they have long wanted, with the civility removed and without any perceived need to share power with liberals. 

 little to none of Project 2025 was mainstream conservatism.

Oh really?

 The elimination of independent oversight

Bush was fine removing IGs and limiting their power. 

https://www.finance.senate.gov/ranking-members-news/senators-protest-presidential-signing-statement-on-inspector-general-reform-act

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/04/03/inspectors-general-ousted-at-2-agencies/67a86a9c-ccac-45db-aefc-d1e464b1336a/

https://time.com/archive/6935574/federal-watchdogs-under-fire/

H. W. Bush tried to remove all IGs when he became president, but Congress blocked it. 

Reagan was also very keen to remove inspectors general, and to limit their oversight. He famously fired 15 of them on his first day in office.

 politicization of civil service 

So, Reagan firing all the air traffic controllers was not politicization of the civil service? 

Republican presidents have long been fighting g this war to recreate the spoils system. Reagan wanted it, but couldn’t get it. W Bush wanted it but couldn’t get it either.

https://www.govexec.com/management/2005/03/bush-and-the-bureaucracy-a-crusade-for-control/18859/

Trump is just a lot more brazen about it, but it’s part of the same conservative strategy. Trump’s just the end game of it.

 judicial capture through ideological vetting

I can’t even. You cannot be serious about this. Conservatives basically invented judicial vetting. Attire through ideological vetting. What do you think the federalist society is? Why is it nearly impossible to be nominated as a judge by a Republican if one isn’t a member? 

 massive upward wealth redistribution

Conservatives have been loud and proud about this since Reagan.

 integration of specific Christian nationalist theocratic doctrines into government policy collectively constitute what democracy scholars characterize as a transition toward authoritarian governance structures.

Which have been key cornerstones of conservative politics since the 1970s and the moral majority. 

 True conservatives 

What are the Trumpists? They are distilled conservatism, with everything else removed. A return to the know-nothing party. 



That casts conservatism in a very different light, or at least the politics and goals of elite conservatives[1]. At least for elite conservatives, the recent past looks a lot more like djt, MAGA and Project 2025 today than I had thought. I still think the modern rank and file, then and now, is and was grossly deceived. Reagan and HW Bush both chafed at restrictions on their power, and congress pushed back. Now, congress no longer pushes back.


Q: Is it reasonable to believe that in recent decades, e.g., since Reagan, American conservatism as practiced by political, business and religious elites (1) was dominated by authoritarianism and kleptocracy goals, and (2) that ideology is mostly the same as what MAGA elites and djt stand for today?


Footnote:
1. I had Pxy fact check some of those assertions. It is true that Reagan, HW Bush and Trump all tried to fire or fired some or all Inspector Generals (IGs). IGs are the people responsible for rooting out and stopping waste, fraud and abuse in federal agencies. Their firings make risk-free corruption, fraud and theft much easier. Some other fact checking and analysis:
Conclusion
The assertions are largely reasonable but require nuance:

1. Upward redistribution is a documented outcome of conservative fiscal policies since Reagan, though not universally celebrated by all conservatives. Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts slashed the top income tax rate from 70% to 28% and corporate taxes from 50% to near zero, accelerating wealth concentration. By 2023, the top 1% held $79 trillion more wealth than they would have under pre-1975 growth patterns 1 11 12.

2. Christian nationalism has been a cornerstone of GOP strategy since the 1970s, with authoritarian implications validated by scholars 6 16.

3. Trumpism represents a redefined conservatism centered on populist nationalism, but fractures persist between MAGA loyalists and traditional conservatives 17 21.

4. Know-Nothing comparisons oversimplify historical context but capture nativist and anti-pluralist tendencies in Trump-era GOP rhetoric 9 24.

5. Structural shifts—not mere ideology—explain these trends: tax policy favoring capital over labor 1, fusion of religious and political identities 20, and institutional GOP capitulation to Trump’s persona 25.